Curse

Katari · Mar 03, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

also to cheer up the people like me who want to take my old characters and take them on new adventures the various site polls say you are not simply not alone............*drumroll* you are a majority and not a small one.

Will you be buying Guild Wars Factions?
Yes, definitely!....................................... ..807
Most likely............................................ ..232
If there are cookies in the box, I'm there!...69

Undecided......................................... ..........65
Probably not............................................... 33
No way............................................... .......19
# votes 1225

---------------------------------------------------------------------

View Poll Results: Will you buy GW:F, now that the character slot issue has been settled?

Yes, I was going to buy it anyway..........................387 56.41%
Yes, two slots is enough for me.............................118 17.20%
Yes, I just will not link the accounts............................8 1.17%

No, two slots does not justify the purchase price..........117 17.06%
No, I wasn't going to buy it anyway.................................9 1.31%
undecided as yet............................................... ............47 6.85%

Would you mind posting links to those polls?
17% is very large percent to consider not buying GW:F ofer this issue. Sure, it's not a majority, but is not anywhere near insignifigant.

On the first poll only 5% says no, but 5% is also undecided. Strange that is has such different results...but....

Currently, over in *cough*GWOnline*cough* there's a poll on the issue
43% Happy with two slots
51% Unhappy with two slots
6% Don't care
Now that's not a pretty looking result at all.

Loviatar · Mar 03, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Would you mind posting links to those polls?
17% is very large percent to consider not buying GW:F ofer this issue. Sure, it's not a majority, but is not anywhere near insignifigant.

On the first poll only 5% says no, but 5% is also undecided. Strange that is has such different results...but....

Currently, over in *cough*GWOnline*cough* there's a poll on the issue
43% Happy with two slots
51% Unhappy with two slots
6% Don't care
Now that's not a pretty looking result at all.

be happy to do so back in a minute

remember it is not if you are super happy but if you will buy it

first poll is here on the right side of main page

http://www.guild-hall.net/index.php?...&poll_ident=34

the second is from..GWONLINE

not the ru happy poll but the will you buy poll

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=387644

kaya · Mar 03, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Would you mind posting links to those polls?
17% is very large percent to consider not buying GW:F ofer this issue. Sure, it's not a majority, but is not anywhere near insignifigant.

On the first poll only 5% says no, but 5% is also undecided. Strange that is has such different results...but....

Currently, over in *cough*GWOnline*cough* there's a poll on the issue
43% Happy with two slots
51% Unhappy with two slots
6% Don't care
Now that's not a pretty looking result at all.

i think you can honestly say also that not all of that 17% will stay away from factions. In fact i'll bet (uneducated guess) the majority of them eventually get it. Because it's a poll, the ones that are mad that they cant have what they want are most likely gonna say they wont buy it. They have nothing to loose in saying it. But if the number scares A-net, then they have everything to win from saying it. So, in other words i think it's just people trying be scary.

Mar 03, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

this is really bs.
They're just forcing us to have 2 less character slots to save memory space on their servers. As if linking or not linking would even be a decision, they know preveous customers will link because they have already unlocked so much on their old accounts. Their explanation isn't a good one, just because your characters can go between versions, the content is not doubled. You get the same amount of content that you paid for, just less character slots with a bogus explanation.
They know that 90% of people with a Tyria account will link the accounts, because it'd be a pain in the ass not to(transfering gold/items).
Acually it'd be impossible, gj with the scam arenaNet.

TGgold · Mar 03, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

A lot of the biggest grievers are getting the game.
They're just trying to manipulate ANET into getting more of what they want.
I bet a good deal of them are American (no offense, I'm an American, but just listen). In our news, and just in life, I've noticed so many people UPSET when people give them things, they don't stop to appreciate what they've been given.
For example: I go to a private school. For the past someodd years our bussing (a 45 minute trip one way) has been FREE of charge. This coming year, there's going to be a $400 charge to use the bus. This made so many people raving mad, and I was dumbfounded. I mean, 180-ish school days, 2 trips, 360 total trips, so a little more than a dollar per way. I mean, that's a decent deal for the distance away the trip is. Now, did they ever stop to think that my school DOESN'T have to give bussing, or could charge a lot more? No. People are just ungrateful for what they have.
I say, be happy they had it free for so long.

In this case, I'm not HAPPY it's only 2 slots, but I'm sure as hell not going to rant and rave about being upset. I'm happy they gave us a new game, and more slots at all <3

As for the 4+4 /= 8
You're all twerps who can't figure out the benefit of linking. Go read up on it, and you'll understand.

I'd say that you have about 75% content from each game, with 2 chapters. But, as chapters go on, that % will decrease if you have standalones.
For now 8*.75=6
I see it as a fair trade.
The next chapter will be more like, 67%
So 12*.6667= 9 wheras linked people will have 10.

Seems kind of basic....

Loviatar · Mar 03, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by skynetftw

just because your characters can go between versions, the content is not doubled. You get the same amount of content that you paid for, just less character slots with a bogus explanation.
They know that 90% of people with a Tyria account will link the accounts, because it'd be a pain in the ass not to(transfering gold/items).
Acually it'd be impossible, gj with the scam arenaNet.

unless you are a beta tester breaking the NDA you have no idea of the amount of content they give.

if Cantha is as big as chapter 1 they have doubled the content and if you have access to both you do have twice the content.

as for switching between non linked accounts i do it every few days giving stuff to my other self so dont say it is impossible

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 04, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

A lot of the biggest grievers are getting the game.
They're just trying to manipulate ANET into getting more of what they want.
I bet a good deal of them are American (no offense, I'm an American, but just listen). In our news, and just in life, I've noticed so many people UPSET when people give them things, they don't stop to appreciate what they've been given.
For example: I go to a private school. For the past someodd years our bussing (a 45 minute trip one way) has been FREE of charge. This coming year, there's going to be a $400 charge to use the bus. This made so many people raving mad, and I was dumbfounded. I mean, 180-ish school days, 2 trips, 360 total trips, so a little more than a dollar per way. I mean, that's a decent deal for the distance away the trip is. Now, did they ever stop to think that my school DOESN'T have to give bussing, or could charge a lot more? No. People are just ungrateful for what they have.
I say, be happy they had it free for so long.

In this case, I'm not HAPPY it's only 2 slots, but I'm sure as hell not going to rant and rave about being upset. I'm happy they gave us a new game, and more slots at all <3

As for the 4+4 /= 8
You're all twerps who can't figure out the benefit of linking. Go read up on it, and you'll understand.

I'd say that you have about 75% content from each game, with 2 chapters. But, as chapters go on, that % will decrease if you have standalones.
For now 8*.75=6
I see it as a fair trade.
The next chapter will be more like, 67%
So 12*.6667= 9 wheras linked people will have 10.

Seems kind of basic....

First of all I'm not an american.

Second of all I resent being called a name like twerp or somesuch for having a well founded opinion. I never asked them to create this game. They created it in the hopes of making a profit not out of the goodness of their heart. This by using an idea which nobody had tried before, risky but if successfull quite profitable as has been evidenced by their final year numbers.

Not to mention that the point that you are trying to postulate could be also interpreted in the next way: hey let Anet make it a monthly payable game now. But you guys should be happy that you were able to play this long without a monthly fee... which would be utter BS seeing as their businessplan was oriented towards a non monthly fee. On top of that we are reserved the right to complain about items that we don't like and if they don't take note of that we have the right to take our bussiness elsewhere. Just as with your example of the school, people have the right to protest about it. If your school would keep to it, then we would have the right to quit the school and find one nearer to us since in the end an extra expenditure of 400$ hits hard especially if you weren't expecting it. And that is exactly what many of us stated that they would do, seeing that there are many more competetitors on the market in comparison with 1 year ago. At the time of GW's inception there where no single player RPG's with some MP content brought on the market, which has coaxed many of the rpg crowd to GW. But by not satisfying the RPG crowd now chances are higher people will pick up a copy of oblivion/ gothic 3/ nwn2 in stead of factions...

And sorry to burst your bubble, but all the fuzzy math that you postulate means squatt to me. In the end I consider the payment of GW to include access to tyria and access with my already established characters to the expansion chapters once I buy these expansion characters (the continuity is comprised in the chapter build up) even if they call it stand along chapters for marketing affaires. On top of that I expect to receive as many extra char slots as that the stand along option offers since I'm paying the same money for this stand along game which can actually be considered to be an expansion for owners of GW.

But meh, think what you like... i drew my conclusions and will pick up gothic 3 for sure and maybe oblivion, i'm not going to spend money on something which i deem to be unfair treatment of customers and comparably of a lower value. Heck if anet ever goes broke I won't be able to play GW anymore due to lack of servers, but if bethesda or bioware god forbid ever goes broke... guess what I can still play oblivion... or morrowind or even older BG1... which i still play at least once a year.

Mosch · Mar 04, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I don't want to join the debate, nobody would listen anyway. The product doe snot meet my demands, so I will not buy it. Simple as that. Should it meet my demands (which would be one slot per class, by the way, meaning 8 slots for Prophecies and Factions combined) at one point in time, I will buy it.

There is one thing I wanted to point out though: Have you actually realized that ANet has never actually given a reason for taking away two slots from linked acounts? I for one did not find any.

Loviatar · Mar 04, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mosch

There is one thing I wanted to point out though: Have you actually realized that ANet has never actually given a reason for taking away two slots from linked acounts? I for one did not find any.

why should they have to in the first place?

they give you a choice

merge and carry over any characters and items you want or start fresh with a clean slate.

you get 6 slots for a merged account

you get 4 slots for stand alone.

you are not having 2 slots taken away you are getting 2 additional new slots to play Factions while new buyers only get 4 slots

6 is 2 more than 4

Mordakai · Mar 04, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

No one has still answered my question:

Those of you who supposedly love the game so much, that you cannot possibly enjoy the expansion without 8 slots?

That makes no sense.

ghostlyranger · Mar 04, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

dem, i only care about inventory and stash size, not character slot.

Sab · Mar 04, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

why should they have to in the first place?

they give you a choice

merge and carry over any characters and items you want or start fresh with a clean slate.

you get 6 slots for a merged account

you get 4 slots for stand alone.

you are not having 2 slots taken away you are getting 2 additional new slots to play Factions while new buyers only get 4 slots

6 is 2 more than 4

I think it's logical they give us eight slots, one for each profession.

Right now, I still haven't played Ele nor Necro primary, and either I have to delete one or two of my characters, which is out of the question as I enjoy playing each and every one of them, or I have to buy another copy of Guild Wars. Why should I shell out two copies of GW just to experience 100% of the game? It'll be the same deal when Factions comes out, you can bet Assassin and Ritualist primary will occupy my two new slots, which means I still can't play Ele or Necro. Why should that be? Again, I'll reiterate, deleting characters is not an option, and I don't believe I should have to buy two copies of GW just to fully experience the game.

This 6*100% vs 4*50% is "heads I win, tails you lose" as far as I'm concerned. I ain't biting.

SirShaitan · Mar 04, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

The only thing I don't like about the situation is that you can only have one character online at a time, so it really doesn't matter to Anet if you have 6 chars or 30. The ploy here is that Anet knows that many people, myself included, love to play all the classes. The only way to do that is to limit the slots available so the end user MUST buy multiple games. Which I have done, resentfully. But they knew that many of us would.

With an update(new game platform) like this people like myself will have to buy multiple Faction accounts to be able to play all thier characters throughout both the games.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 04, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

No one has still answered my question:

Those of you who supposedly love the game so much, that you cannot possibly enjoy the expansion without 8 slots?

That makes no sense.

we love the game but we aren't going to let people take advantage of us repeatedly.

Its the same as you caring for your sister. If she hits you once in the groan... you'll be happy with a plain sorry. If she keeps on hitting you in the groan... a sorry won't cut it anymore even though you care for her as a brother...

hinhtan · Mar 04, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

No one has still answered my question:

Those of you who supposedly love the game so much, that you cannot possibly enjoy the expansion without 8 slots?

That makes no sense.

If you love your girlfriend so much then she has treated you like a kid
Think it that way and you will get it.
This new GWF is an expansion hmm stand alone hmm combine lose two slots...whatever...ever..

Katari · Mar 04, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

No one has still answered my question:

Those of you who supposedly love the game so much, that you cannot possibly enjoy the expansion without 8 slots?

That makes no sense.

You seem to be assuming that having two few slots wasn't a problem in the past. I know the last few months the lack of slots has become very fustrating. So I can't say I loved the game "so much" in the first place, primarly because of this issue. The fact that there is no plan to fix it in Factions would make me consider not buying Factions, yes.

Part of what has kept me here has been the lack of good looking alternatives. Oblivion, and NWN2 are not too far away, so for Faction's to interest me, It's gotta, well, you know, be something that I want. I want to be able to play the new content without feeling restricted, like I have been for the last eight months in GW. I had bought GW thinking "well, lets see just how annoying the lack of slots is" and well, it's freaking irritating. I don't want to go through the same thing yet again in Factions.

Again, the issue is not really Faction's itself, but the core number of slots. I will not buy another account to fix what I consider to be a flaw in the basic game design. I do not think we should need to buy two accounts to fully experience the game. That being said, I don't think saying 'buy another account' is sound advice. A second account is simply not sufficent (Too many doubling, and seperation issues, see previous posts). To solve the problem, slots need to be added to a players account. I don't care if we have to buy them, or if A.Net gives in and hands them over.

If each class is content (As indicated by A.Net Fuzzy-Math), and the game itself is content, we have now
4*1/6=67% of the content we purchased.
Four out of six. I didn't get the full game, I got a little more than half.

A Faction's only player would have:
4*1/8=50% of the conent they purchased.
Limited acess to content, but more character choices.

Factions+Prophecies, unmerged
4*.5/6+4*.5/8=58% of the content we have purchaced.
This value isn't very clear, since two classes cannot acess tyria regardless. However, I don't feel this value is very important.

If we were to ignore that, and say that we can elimiate the classes on the GW:P account from the list, we get this value for unmerged accounts:
4*.5/6+4*.5/4=83%
Again, a funny number. It's bigger than any other value on the table.

If we merge accounts, we get:
6*1/8=75%
That is, six potential characters, out of eight, times the full content we have purchased.

Or if we want to see how many games we have.
6*2/8=150%
Thats one and a half games, not two, I paid for two didn't I? Where did it go? Where is my missing third from GW:P? "Not funny math"? A.Net, I donno, but I kinda like to think that 1+1=2 but we see here that you think 1+1=1.5

So, We go from 67% to 75%? We go up slightly in total playable content. If we had an inital six slots, owners of GW:P, and merged accounts of GW:P+GW:F would have 100% of the content. Factions players would have a little bit of a problem, I'll admit, because they start with eight classes. I'm not concerend about that, because they would have what GW:P players never had, a good simple solution to their problem.

So we see that the benifit of linking is to get a slightly higher percentage more playable, purchased content. Or not, depending on how you look at it. So yes, there is (Or might be, we'll assume there is for now) a benifit to linking, however, the first sentence here is what causes me pause. The benifit is to get a slightly higher percentage of purchased content. Slightly higher percentage of purchased content? . I'm not sure what other people think, and some may even call me crazy for thinking this, but I'd kinda like to have acess to all of the content I have purchased. One hundred percent. I don't want to buy a game and only get half of it, and when I do, I'd darned well like to be told so, and have some viable way of making it whole.

I thought I mentioned this before, but here goes again. We are paying for GW, sure, it is not a monthly fee, but we are still paying for it. A.Net does not get a get out of jail free card because of this. This does not make them Gods, just because there is no monthly fee dosn't mean they can get away with whatever they like. Yes Lovitar, 4 is more than six. Fantastic, are you saying we're lucky we got slots at all or something? Or are you saying we should be happy with whatever they throw at us?

hinhtan · Mar 04, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaya

i think you can honestly say also that not all of that 17% will stay away from factions. In fact i'll bet (uneducated guess) the majority of them eventually get it. Because it's a poll, the ones that are mad that they cant have what they want are most likely gonna say they wont buy it. They have nothing to loose in saying it. But if the number scares A-net, then they have everything to win from saying it. So, in other words i think it's just people trying be scary.

We will move on and try something else new ..
Dont forget Oblivion will be released on the 20th of this month
NWN2 will be also released sometime around July
Final Fantasy XII will be released in August.
These games are being developed by bigguys and trust me people will leave .
One of these games at least will be AAA and people will just stick with these new games.
Remember this is 2006 not like 2005 when there was'nt enough good RPG .
In the end we win because these NEW games are 100% STAND ALONE new new new fresh fresh fresh.....

Accurax · Mar 04, 2006, 09:28 AM // 09:28

OK

I read the fist couple of posts... but once it turned into a Whinge fest i decided not to waste my time with the rest.

So, I apoligise if someone else has mentioned this.

But ....

STOP MOANING !!!

If you link accounts you have only 6 slots ....... instead of 8 unlinked.

This is true

But, Anet has allready said there will be content that spans BOTH continents..... ie, Quests in tyria to relate to cantha and vis a vis.

So if you do not link you miss out on new quests in tyria .... seem like u lot are all just getting upset because you bus isnt free anymore.

hinhtan · Mar 04, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accurax

OK

So if you do not link you miss out on new quests in tyria .... seem like u lot are all just getting upset because you bus isnt free anymore.

You think $50 for an stand alone WHATEVER is free ...LOL

Mosch · Mar 04, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

why should they have to in the first place?

Why indeed? It's not as if I am a potential customer who would like to be informed.
...wait a second... bugger, in fact I am!
Look at it this way. I buy Factions, a game that allows me to choose four characters to explore the world of Cantha. And if I link it with the first chapter, I get 2 characters to explore Cantha. Tell me there's no loss. And I would like to know why I should tolerate this loss.
And to counter your next argument, no, I don't get 6 characters for Cantha. I have already paid for the first four so you can not just add it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

they give you a choice

merge and carry over any characters and items you want or start fresh with a clean slate.

I don't doubt that. But if I carry my stuff over, then why do I lose two character slots? I can not see any reason behind this. I have said it once and I will say it again: If I am told a reason for that decision that does not equate to "we said so" and is understandable to me, I will gladly shut up. Nobody has managed to do so in 30 pages though. Not one single argument as to why there should be less slots on a merged game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

you get 6 slots for a merged account

you get 4 slots for stand alone.

you are not having 2 slots taken away you are getting 2 additional new slots to play Factions while new buyers only get 4 slots

6 is 2 more than 4

No, I do not get 6 slots for a merged account. I have already bought 4 slots with the first game, so I get 2. Your logic is so flawed it's not even funny.... if I had 9 different accounts and then bought Factions nobody in their right mind would tell me that buying Factions gets me 10 accounts.
Faction provides the world of Cantha and four character slots to enjoy it. If I link the games, I only get two slots. Two is only one half of four. Therefore linking games only gives me one half the fun.
(For the thickies: This is not what I think, this is simply making fun of the brainless calculation ANet gave us.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

No one has still answered my question:

Those of you who supposedly love the game so much, that you cannot possibly enjoy the expansion without 8 slots?

That makes no sense.

I don't love games, I love my fiancee.
I don't know if I had fun with the expansion if I got x slots. Hey, I don't know if I had devilish fun even if the expansion took 3 of my 4 slots away and installed a rootkit. I don't know and I don't care. I will buy a product that meets my demands or take my business elsewhere. ANet has surely calculated with my unhappiness - "If 17% of the players equal Mosch and stop buying our games, we will still turn a profit". There is no grudge in that and there is no grudge in my leaving. I would have liked to do business with them, but I can't because they do not offer the product I want. They do not offer the product I want because the number of people thinking (and above all acting) like me is insignificant to them.
In closing, and to put all my crap in a nutshell: I like the game and therefore want to have it changed so that I will keep on liking it. This is a simple change that would have no drawback for anyone, is already implemented (you can install Factions as a standalone to get 4 slots) and would be negligible cost-wise (I will just assume this based on my knowledge about IT) and YET they will not give this change to me for reasons that are utterly mysterious. So no deal with me.